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Rotella T oil?

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To your question concerning your manual not stating  using Kawasaki oil, for example, the answer is  obvious--look for  the manufacturer's name on the container!

If I'm in the area of BSC, I pick up some Suzi oil. My last Honda oil change I was on the Rock Road, stopped in at Donnelsen's and picked some Honda GN-4. My last ZRX oil change I was running west on I-44, stopped in at the Kawasaki dealer on the south outer road in Fenton, picked up some Kawi oil.

The filters I order online 3 at a time.  This isnt rocket science!

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The Kawi oil and the Rotella probably came out of the same tank at the refinery. :) I use OEM filters though. I was using K&N for a while until they changed manufacturing plants and they started blowing seals and causing all sorts of slippery chaos in the AMA races. :)

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Well, I dont use synth in my bikes, and when draining the Kawi(or Honda) oil I NEVER have seen "gunks" of any kind during the draining process.

 

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This has been so much fun, I think I'm going to join a diesel-tractor forum and ask, "Is it OK if I use motorcycle oil in my J.D.?"...

 

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What rotella oil is 10w40?

 

T6 is synthetic 5w40.

A gallon of T6 is $28 which is pretty cheap, comes to $7 a quart. But I can get 6 quarts of castrol synthetic motorcycle 10w40 for <$40 on Amazon right now. So that's $6.30 a quart, and I know 100% it complies with that the manufacturer wants. 

Although I must admit I am a hypocrit, my manual says 10w40. But other triumph manuals of different regions mention 10w50 and 15w50. I tried 10w50 which lessened consumption. Now I'm about to try 15w50. Motul 5100 full synthetic shipped to my door from amazon. Probably too thick for winter, but should be just fine for summer. 

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Oh, I just was speaking hypothetically. That is, if the specs that were printed on the oil bottle matched what the specs were in my service manual I should be good. HOWEVER. :) I spoke with Terry and finally drug out what he actually meant by the term "manufacturer's recommendation" when it comes to oil. He ASSumed we all knew what he meant and I actually didn't, until now. His definition of manufacturer's recommended oil is not only that it matches the standards and viscosity listed in the service manual but that it also has the manufacturers name on the front (Kawasaki branded oil for Kawasakis, Suzuki branded oil for Suzukis, etc). At least now I know. :) It's certainly a sound position for sure and you really shouldn't go wrong with that advice, like all advice Terry gives. But we also decided on our call that some might consider him a bit anal. :) Sorry Terry, have to throw my jabs in when I can. :)

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16 minutes ago, crash said:

 But we also decided on our call that some might consider him a bit ANAL.

 

Well Todd...by that last statement I can certainly see where YOUR head is at...I'm flattered, for sure..but definitely not interested.:kma: Bahahahahahah

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Also as an FYI, for those that didn't know what the numbers mean on the front label:

 

http://www.driverstechnology.co.uk/oils.htm

 

In a 10w-40 for example the 10w bit (W = winter, not weight or watt or anything else for that matter) simply means that the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity/flow at low temperature. The lower the "W" number the better the oil's cold temperature/cold start performance.

 

The 40 in a 10w-40 simply means that the oil must fall within certain viscosity limits at 100°C. This is a fixed limit and all oils that end in 40 must achieve these limits. Once again the lower the number, the thinner the oil: a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100°C etc. Your handbook will specify whether a 30, 40 or 50 etc is required.

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Thanks, Todd. I USED to know the exact meaning of "W" in the viscosity index, but that was years ago. Now it's back in my memory banks.

In most owners manuals there is a graph showing ambient air temperature ranges and the recommended oi viscosity for a particular range.

As an example, my Suzuki shows 10w-30 for -4 to 86 degrees, 10w-40 and 10w-50 for -4 to 104, 15w-40 and 15w-50 for 6 to104, and 20w-40 and 20w-50 for 14 to 104 degrees F.  I use 10w-40 and I'm covered.

  In my older bike, I used 20w-50 which was OK for the temperatures. But when I switched back to 10W-40 I noticed that it cranked faster cold, shifted easier, and the clutch action was far better.

 

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7 hours ago, Road_Runner said:

I would think in general the thicker oil the better for long engine life.

 

 

 

 

 

Not true, Steve. The thicker oil doesnt flow as easily when cold, and the cam lobes--a high-load wear point the furthest from the oil pump--suffer the most 1st directly after startup on a cold engine.

 Oil viscosity requirements are also based on engine mechanical tolerances, and engines are set up much "tighter" than they were just a few years ago. I can remember when cars used straight 30 weight, then 20 weight, then they went to multi-viscosity 10w-40, then 10w-30, then 5w-20. Now many cars specify 0w-20 as the preferred oil weight. The engines are more efficient, retain compression longer, and dont suffer mechanically with the lighter-weight oils.

 Lighter weight oils allow for smaller and lighter electrical components( starter motor, battery, wiring) due to less mechanical resistance when cold.Easier for the oil to be squeezed out of the clutch plates when released,  easier for transmission gear teeth dogs to engage when cold.

  A simple test will confirm this:  Run 20w-50 in your engine in hot temps. Cold startup, pull in the clutch lever and engage 1st gear. Many bikes will "clunk" and the bike will lurch forward a bit as the thicker oil still tries to transmit power through the clutch. Then try the same thing using 10w-40 oil. The clunk and forward lurch will be less pronounced. Proven personally on my own 750 and many other bikes.

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8 hours ago, Road_Runner said:

I would think in general the thicker oil the better for long engine life.

 

Not necessarily true. Modern engines are built with such tight tolerances that thicker oil can not get into all areas of the motor, and cannot flow as easily through passageways. If you go too thick you can starve your top end of oil.

 

Ford's modular engines are this way. Run thicker oil than they recommend, and you'll be replacing valve seals. 

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8 hours ago, Road_Runner said:

ps my understanding is the first number is the better indicator of Overall oil viscosity.

 

The first number is the cold viscosity and the 2nd number is the viscosity at 100C (212F). The lower the first number the easier it will crank when cold and lower first number is better in cold climates. But when engine is at full operating temp the 0W-50 and 20W-50 should behave identically. The lower the 2nd number the thinner the oil (more freely it will flow) at temp.

 

EDIT: I shouldn't have said a lower first number is "better" in cold climates as there may be other factors that would cause a manufacturer to to require a higher cold number. Easier cranking doesn't necessarily equate to being better for the motor. It's probably better for the starting system however. :)

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As a side note. If you're dealing with an older high mileage car engine that you've always ran 10W-30 in with no problems; Then the kid at Jiffy Lube accidentally puts in 0W-30. There is a good chance you will start to notice smoking, or "blow-by" on cold starts. And also little drops of oil on your garage floor that have never been there before.

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In all honesty oil is like tire pressures. You have to figure out what works best for you and how you ride, and also how much you want to spend. An R1 that spends 80% of it's life over 10,000 RPM is going to have different requirements than an R1 that spends 80% of it's life below 10,000 RPM. Same bike, but the engine on one is taking more punishment than the other.

 

In this case one engine may benefit more from a higher quality oil, or different viscosity,  and more frequent oil changes.

 

Todd and I could be on the same bike with the same tires, but that doesn't mean his tire pressures will work for me.

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Had that same basic conversation with Terry yesterday. Similarly, you may do things way differently in many areas depending on if you are going for performance or longevity. It would be nice to have both, but usually there are trade-offs.

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Yamaha recommends changing the oil in the R1 every 6000 miles.  Do you think the oil in Josh Hayes' bike get changed every 6000 miles?

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My book says 7500 miles. I actually let it go that long sometimes, although it usually gets changed before that for other reasons. Of course I'm not Josh Hayes. :)

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I got the 15W-40 so I'm not going to ride anymore when its below. 6 degrees!

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Josh Hayes also doesn't have to pay for his own oil. :lol:

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Years ago we had a customer with a '97 Mazda 626 2.0 4-cylinder. 43K miles. Bought the car new from our dealership.

She came in complaining of engine noise. I got the job, this thing sounded like a farmer's corn-threshing machine.

Back in my bay I checked the oil, it was full. Took off the oil fill cap...and I couldnt see the cams or valve springs!

Took off the valve cover...and sludge completely covered the valvetrain!

My service adviser and the customer came out to my work area for me to show them.  The advisor asks(right in front of me, mind you) "When was the last time you changed your oil?" And the customer replied..."My salesperson told me to make sure I change the oil at 3000 miles. And I did!!       (She never changed it after that--40K miles on the same oil and filter).

 I dropped the pan and pressure washed the valvetrain, oil pan, and underside of the block. Filled with fresh oil and new filter, ran for 45 minutes, and changed it again. It was quiet as a mouse.

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If it leaks or burns enough oil you should never have to change it. Just add more and you'll always have fresh oil. :) Not sure what to do about that filter though. :(

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2 minutes ago, crash said:

If it leaks or burns enough oil you should never have to change it. Just add more and you'll always have fresh oil. :) Not sure what to do about that filter though. :(

 

And everyone thinks the oil consumption problem in the 5.3 is a design flaw. It was actually a brilliant move to always guarantee you have clean oil in your truck. Now GM just needs to convince the people in Minnesota of that.

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8 minutes ago, crash said:

If it leaks or burns enough oil you should never have to change it. Just add more and you'll always have fresh oil. :) Not sure what to do about that filter though. :(

Dont worry about the filter--it has an internal bypass. And the oil pump has a pressure relief valve. At this point dirty unfiltered oil is better than no oil. The real fun happens when the oil pump pickup screen clogs.Then you get to call 1-800-CRANKSHAFT

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We need @draginpegs to weigh in on this. He would know more about this subject than all of us combined. I was planning on going up there and picking his brain on the subject but I don't want to hoard the info. :)

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